My child and “unschooling?”
Uncategorized April 30th, 2008
Two caveats first: One, I may have unconsciously or even consciously included “unschooling” in the title because I suspect that will draw traffic. I’m guessing the unschooling types are abundant in the blogosphere (see e.g. http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/). And, my narcissistic need for attention is now well-documented. Second, I feel like I’m sticking my neck out here a bit. Be gentle; please.
I’ve ALWAYS been a staunch advocate of public schools. They served me well. But, at the moment, I’m in a bad place with the institution of public schooling. Much of my current state has to do with pondering my son’s pending entrance into the world of formal “schooling” when we enroll him in preschool in the fall. I feel really good about the place we’ll be sending him come September, but I can’t help think about what happens 2.5 years from now (how’s that for thinking ahead?). If my wife and I are so focused on doing what we think is “best” for our child, how can I justify “exposing” my child to an institution that:
- conceptualizes learning as a solo flight
- tinkers towards modernity, but still remains woefully incapable of supporting the development of 21st century skills and dispositions
- is complicit in systematic, if not intentional, segregation by race between and within schools
- consistently sorts children according to unchallenged constructions of “ability”
I could go on, but I’ll stop there.
I’m not ready (yet?) to fully embrace “unschooling” and I’m not sure I have the will or the emotional fortitude to implement the ideas behind that “movement.” I’ve read some stuff by John Taylor Gatto and other unschooling advocates; it all strikes me as simultaneously compelling and ridiculous. I do, however, feel a need to learn more (what else is new?).
I have 2.5 years to reconcile my concerns with the institution of public schooling and my core values as a learner and a parent. Dear readers, I’d be forever indebted should you wish to help me through that reconciliation process.
Tags: parenting, public schools, unschooling
My daughter was unschooled from 0-10. Unschooling is a loaded term. Most people who say they are unschooling are homeschooling….and most people who say they are homeschooling are just reproducing public school at home. If you have some specific questions let me know…this might be a conversation for skype rather than a blog.
PBogush@wallingford.k12.ct.us
With your child in the public schools, you become an advocate for them and the children they learn with. Without your child being in the public schools, who will be their advocate. I could give you pithy quotes from famous people, but the simple truth is, if you don’t fight locally, you shouldn’t complain globally.
Can I fight locally with my child removed from the fray? Meaning, can’t I still be an advocate for public school reform without having to expose my child(ren) to an institution I question?
My last comment didn’t show up - so I’ll try again
John you have now become the ‘every-parent’ and as someone involved in educational reform it is a great place to be. It is also a very anxious place to be, because you know just enough to ‘beat yourself up’ about what you might do.
I know nothing about de-school, my 4 y.o. daughter will be starting the PYP program this Aug and I am very excited about that; as I believe in the ideology at the heart of the IB.
My concern and greatest efforts are now focused on curriculum reform of the middle years’ entitlement within the organisation I work, before she gets to high-school. Its not that I am doing it just for my daughter, but it does give it a certain impetuous.
Perhaps I was just irresponsible before; but as my daughter gets older, my parental concerns have informed my reformist tendencies – not tempered them just made them more pragmatic.
I now always ask myself would I be happy if my daughter was part of a trial program that I might suggest. What are the opportunity costs? (Most of the time I still think there are greater opportunity cost by doing nothing) It is not that I didn’t consider students before, their welfare was at the forefront of my beliefs – but the movement from the generic student to a single student (who shares DNA) is very clarifying.
Perhaps as educators we might be the only segment of society who actually get some benefit out of ‘the worries of parenting’ – hopefully it makes us better teachers
Thanks for the comment, Gilbert. I do think I’ll be spending too much time beating myself up; I’ll have to watch for that.
In the county in which I now reside, we only have the IB program at the middle level. I’m jealous!
I am always interested in discussions of unschooling. I am a product of a porocial school system, sent my five kids to public school, and have had family experience with home schooling. What works works because of the people involved not because of a specific system. The reverse is also true. What works is also a great deal to do with the parents. Families are smaller and with only a couple of children parents put so much effort into every detail. So try not to overthink every issue.
Hi Tina,
I’m not sure I understand your point(s). What do you mean by “the reverse is also true?” And, what am I overthinking?
Jon - you are probably one of the smartest people I have ever shared information with and always with a perspective, so I’m missing how you are missing this.
Tina, you nailed it. Schools are the people in them. Good schools are good people - the reverse is also true.
Overthinking? Just about everything! Maybe I’m too simplistic, but a philosophical discussion isn’t necessary. Can you teach your child without the structured school and the people there - then you should! Keep in mind social interaction appropriate to their level, content inforation, skills, access to technology (Jon, you’d be fine there), and co-existence on a planet with limited resources. If you can teach these better than the local school, why wouldn’t you? Oh, by the way, get a second opinion of your own abilities…not all of us “beat up” on ourselves ENOUGH when it comes to our kids’ futures.
Keep writing, Tina, realism is good. This is a good place to share it.
Gilbert, using your own flesh and blood (or a neighbor’s kid if you don’t have your own) does make it easier to think in terms of progress vs. cost. Would you really want your kid to do this first? I have ued it in many cases myself, realizing that my son/daughter may not be “every student” in terms of their needs. I can, however, ask, “If my child had this option…”
Jon, I’m not familiar with the IB you talk about, or at least that term. Can you help me out some here?
Jon - The reverse is true means an educational system that works but is crippled due to the individuals involved in it (government,administration, teachers, parents, students ).
I have the opinion that a large family is very advantageous to educating children. So much more opportunity to interact and learn from each other. Now a childs extended sibling family is located in a day care facility or a school format. I guess what I mean by overthinking could be my perception of how you are justifying exposing or not exposing your child to future educational settings. I think you should include in your investigation the idea of a large family verses a small family. An interesting concept that my lead you to more research into unschooling or the reverse.
Marshall,
I think we all have to ask the question would I want my child to be in that classroom, school, or community. That is what makes a good educator, parent, or citizen. I think to often people are led like sheep and do not think they have to power to make a choice and ask the question.
Interesting discussion, all. Marshall, you say that I’m one of the smartest people…Well, believe it or not, I’m not confident that I know what it means to be smart. I know that I spent a LOT of years (nearly 30) being formally schooled. I know that I am constantly seeking and exploring learning opportunities. All that makes me is highly schooled and eager to learn. Smart? Maybe, I don’t know if that even matters. What matters is the learning opportunities. Until now, for me, the vast majority of those opportunities existed in a formal schooling environment. At the time, I thought I was pretty lucky to have had those experiences. In retrospect, though, knowing what I know now and knowing what’s possible in the information age, I’m just wondering what I want for my children. I’m not going to have more children than I otherwise planned for the sake of creating my own little schoolhouse, and I DO really want my child(ren) to learn through relationships with other. That’s what makes me particularly enthusiastic about the preschool my son will be attending in the fall. They espouse and use a Reggio-Emilia based approach which is all about learning in relation to others and with nature.
Because I think learning with and amongst others is SO vitally important, I can’t, at least not yet, justify facilitating learning opportunities for my child(ren) by ourselves…especially not just because we can.
Tina, I agree entirely that there are too many sheeps. That’s exactly why I started this conversation. I was hoping nice and “smart” (whatever that means, right?) people would stop by and help me make sure I wasn’t one of those sheep. So, thanks again.
Jon, if I can learn from you, that is a good place to start for a definition of “smart”, and I’ve learned a lot in a short time. You are candid and well-read (you can back up your information). My responses are pretty heart-felt and from the hip, so I appreciate your factual basis. I think your eagerness for parenting is applaudable and I congratulate you on that focus. As you note above, I too am not ready to wander into the vastness of technology only learning just because it is available to us.
So that all said and thinking now of sheep from Tina and Jon, does our exposure to a social structure of learning that is clearly fallible actually better prepare us for the future? Since we realize and recognize the holes in the system but can’t/won’t fill them, does that better prepare us for a life in a world that similarly has holes? If not, are we sheep that believe we are invincible among the wolves? No answers, just questions.
Jon- Reggio-Emilia, another name for a system, a good system, look closely at the people involved, that is the success or failure. As the mother of five ( four out of elementary) and elementary teacher I base my remarks on experience. I have been where you are in the questioning process. Keep questioning, accepting only one answer is the way of a sheep.
Marshall,
Took a couple times through to decide the question. Yes, knowing the fallibility of the structure prepares us to question. No, the future is the unknown especially when it relates to education. Love the ‘hole’ analogy, so what hole is technology digging us into? I have a feeling that in the long run embracing technology as we are now may be the sheep thing to do. That would make the wolves the technology. Wonder what would happen if individuals decided that technology wasn’t the way of the future and education?
Good point, Tina. I believe that there are those that have decided that - “technology refugees” come to mind? When the internet first became plausible, I was definitely one. Glad I was in the minority now, but at what point do we feel the implosion of too much too fast, etc. If we are the sheep of technology, then people like Jon and Scott are the shepherds. IMHO that is a positive, but even then we sheep need to follow cautiously and with conscious intent - no offense to the shepherds that are doing there job and following their own passions. Even great, well-meaning shepherds can unintentionally run a flock into a pack of wolves.
Even great, well meaning shepherds can unintentionally run a flock into a pack of wolves. That is exactly what I am trying to say, thanks for saying it better! What a quote to remember…
So back to the topic of un-schooling. Compelling yes, if you are around children you know they learn by doing especially when they are doing something they are iterested in. Rediculous yes, what about what they are not interested in but need to learn, and where is all the indivudual attention coming from? I have had lots of experience teaching small children and they love any type of learning, they are hungry for it. I think the question should be how to continue that hunger and feed it in a school setting (what ever that setting is). I see that hunger dying when the children turn into middle schoolers. Why does this happen? I have lots of reasons but then that would not encourage self thought. How would un-schooling handle this change in learning hunger? I am still an advocate that it is who teaches the child is more important than the system or method they use. How can you know more about the teaching style of the teacher, build a relationship with the school, administration, and the parents of children in the class with your child. This relationship building starts when a child is born, enters pre-school, and starts formalized education.
Tina—the biggest cause of that change in middle school years is school. Un-schooling doesn’t have to “handle” the change because it doesn’t happen. If a an unschooled child’s quest for learning wanes in the middle school years it is also ok. An unschooled child learns more when they are not learning, than a school kid does when they are being forced to learn.
The unschooling way of learning is such a paradigm(right word?) shift in thinking that any one who was a product of the system would have trouble wrapping the heads around it. Especially anyone who liked school. I think it is nearly impossible for a true blue teacher to make the shift to unschooling. It goes against everything that they have experienced and do in a classroom. The number one thing one needs to do in unschooling is to totally and completely trust the child.
(pause for effect)
Can your child decide what to eat, when to go to bed, what to do during the day, where to go…
Almost everyone’s initial response would be no because we have been programed to believe that we need to teach children–we follow certain rules that under closer examination are totally arbitrary. The problem with deciding to unschool a child at an age other than birth is that is requires a period of time to re-program yourself, and the child.
Paul, I agree entirely! Over the last three years, raising my son, I’ve been really careful not to judge other parents and their parenting styles. So, I write this as my opinion and not to make judgments about others…
We have, to this point, tried dearly not to baby our baby. We trust him, entirely (well, within reason). For instance, a nutritionist once told us that the child determines how much s/he eats and when s/he eats. Our only role is to decide which foods are appropriate and to provide choices. That has worked beautifully. That holds true in other areas as well. He decides; we simply advise. It’s exhausting, but I feel really good about it.
So, my interest in unschooling stems from there. I want my child to decide his learning path and trajectory. Again, I’ll probably chicken out in the end…and follow the other sheep!
Jon and Paul, I disagree - probably no surprise.
I think Jon made my argument for me - we need to have some rules in order to teach children. Yes, I said “teach” them. IMHO, we go beyond what is appropriate when Paul states, “The number one thing one needs to do in unschooling is to totally and completely trust the child.” Whoa….. even Jon, in agreement uses the phrases “well, within reason” and “Our only role is to decide which foods are appropriate.” and “we simply advise” in his approach to totally and completely trusting the child. I trust my kids too, but I also know that they do need some guidance that my excessive years may provide. I would think that when Jon does “chicken out in the end” it won’t be to follow sheep, it will be to provide the best options for his children. It’s easy to see you are a good dad, and you are looking for the balance of experiential learning and safety.
If you don’t totally trust a kid, than what is the alternative…not trusting them, partially trusting them. Ouch
If you have brought your child up in an environment in which they are trusted, and allowed to make decisions, you will be amazed at their ability to make the right choices. What people will do when they here about true unschooling is say that a child can’t make the choices without the wisdom of an adult. If a child is being raised to think on their own in the presence of an adult who imparting their wisdom along the way, you will be amazed.
Marshall…just so I have something to work with instead of making stuff up, give me three rules that are necessary.
Paul
In some ways I think we are saying the same thing with different phrases - re-read my post if you will.
How about the ten rules (which are sometimes called Commandments) that God laid on his children. Do you think He doesn’t trust us, or do you think we need some concrete guidance?
In addition, for our own kids, things like: Don’t cross the street, limited junk food/drink, and respect of others. Does this seem like things we could “teach” without any regret?
When I say “totally trust” I have images of totally trusting my children to decide when they should learn to drive (Ouch may be more literal on that one), deciding that they don’t need to learn math at all (who needs to add anyway?), and watching “The Girls Next Door” into the wee hours of the night (hey, they need to learn about the ladies, right). Each one has a pretty easy answer if you “trust” them to do the right thing, but is this really what you mean? I guess I would say that yes, partially trusting them to understand the outcomes of their actions is where I may fall on the spectrum.
I’ll hang on your every word, Paul. I’m enjoying the conversation a lot - you are causing me to think out my emotions and quantify my beliefs. Thanks.
Ok Marshall…here you go.
I think there is a subtle difference between the two points.
Unschoolers do get to decide when they learn math. So let’s say its not until they are thirteen they decide to learn math — that’s ok. They learn it and they don’t need the eight years of public school math to catch up. I know a fourth grader who was unschooled and entered public schools and caught up to her peers with a month or two.
You don’t have to limit junk food because they will learn to limit themselves. Eat junk food all day and you feel yuck, so you don’t do it again. You don’t have to teach walking across street. The child is with you all their early life as you do it and then they model that behavior.
Again, if you start trusting someone who has never been trusted, there will be a huge explosion. They might sit on the couch all day eating gummie worms. But eventually get off their butt. The longer they have been schooled, the longer they need to get unschooled. I do believe in guidance. I do believe in letting them her their wisdom, I do believe in letting them fall.
Here is a very simple example…maybe too basic. Let’s say you give your kid $20 to buy a memento from vacation. They walk into a store and buy $20 of icecream. You want with all your heart to say how ridiculous it is but let them make the choice. The get sick, it melts all over, and they have nothing to bring home. Or…and this one is from personal experience…they keep buying cheap plastic junk that breaks before they get home. After a few years they have learned their lesson — they make the choice to stop, they are not following their orders.
Alot of times with trusting their decisions you have to search your soul for where your rule comes from. Let’s say you have a big ol piece of ice cream cake left over and they want to eat it after breakfast. Do you let them? Why not? Who made the rule that you should only have something like that for dessert after diner. Who made the rule that socks should match? or that pants should match shirts? I brought my five year old out the other day after she dressed herself — mismatched striped socks, floral dress, striped jacket — all choosen because she wanted to be flashy. Every cell in my body wanted her to go back and change. We went out to the store and so many people stopped to talk to her and said such lovely things about her flashy style. Someday I am sure that she will be a little more concerned about matching..but I’ll let her figure out when that should be.
Alright — I am not really a writer, hard to make my point in a comment box.
Jon, thanks for letting Marshall and I use your blog
Paul
I absolutely agree with what you say about them learning from experience. That is without question the best teacher, and I applaud your eloquence in saying so. My children have, and do, continue to do much as you have explained above, and that is a wonderful feeling - them learning based on realistic consequences. I have children that are both intellectual and stubborn, and failing (I truly mean A kids getting a big fat F in a class) has taught them responsibility. Wanting to jump in to “save” them was there, but the power was in the result. Maybe I am just stuck on the concept of oblivious trust first, and will this work with all kids second. I don’t agree that kids will always model adult behavior (street crossing) as I consistently watch 6-8 year old fly past my house on a bicycle not once looking for traffic at an intersection. If they ultimately do get hit by a car, my confidence is that they will learn to look better the next time……IF they get that chance. Do I take this chance and not tell them and show them the negative effects of ignoring traffic. To me, not worth the risk. Here is maybe a bigger topic, and I’ll just let you reflect on what you tell your kids about talking with, accepting gifts, and going places with “strangers” they may encounter. How do you approach that concept? I’ll tell you again that I respect your views and this is helping me assess my parenting, so understand that although I would like to “challenge” your stated philosophical lines and thinking, it is so I am better able to understand and learn from your examples.
Jon - ditto on the thanks for space. Please join in, it was your master mind that sparked our interest!
@Paul
I just wanted to add another blog for your reference that helped me. The word used there was “empowerment” and they speak of similar information. I think we both are trying o empower our kids - and our students, but we have a difference of opinion in where the guidance lies. Check out http://www.leadertalk.org/2008/05/is-teaching-a-p.html?cid=113768488#comment-113768488 to see if that clarifies or muddies the conversation.
Paul-
I see the middle school desire to learn change due to physical and emotional changes in the child. It does not matter if the child is schooled or un-schooled a change happens. Children un shooled at home may not demonstrate it as much but it will be demonstrated. Ask any parent of a teenage child. Child development studies show it. The social invironment the child is involved with at the time helps the child work through it. What kind of social environment will an un-schooled child have, that is a question for each family.
I do not count myself as a product of the system. What criteria would you use for that? So if someone is a public school teacher they can not understand other teaching concepts? That comment is interesting…
I will say that I am a true blue teacher and always will be whether it is at home with my children or in a classroom with my students.
I trust children to be children. I trust in experience and what experience teaches .
Another question I have about un-schooling is what happen to the underpriveledged child who can not get to the resources or technology or afford a parent to stay home with them and un-school.
One last question-how long does it take an un-schooled child to adapt themselves to the work force where they will not be allowed the freedom of learning that they are used to?
Marshall- Great reference to the ‘Ten Commandments’. If you look at anything in the world there is always a guide.